Comment

Comment by Zachary Melvard on May 10, 2012 at 12:40pm

Had to delete the last post to end hostilities so im going to consider this done =P

Comment by Zachary Melvard on May 8, 2012 at 1:53am

Im going to have to agree with joe im done talking to you your stuck on your path is THE right way much love to ya and good luck

Comment by Joe Swam on May 8, 2012 at 1:49am

I had to reread my words to make sure I didn't say that there is nothing emotionally draining about 'our situation'. Of course, I didn't say that. I don't think I'm going to be able to explain to you why your point of view is cynical. Just like you're not going to be able to explain to me why finding happiness in the relationships I have with my friends and family is escapism. However, I don't think I have anything else to add to the discussion. I have a lot of writing to do and we're not going to change each other's point of view. I get too easily caught up in discussions like these. They don't seem to accomplish much other than keeping me from getting my work done. Good luck to you. Peace.

Comment by Zachary Melvard on May 8, 2012 at 1:29am

Health care through the state, and i never said no one should get help i said no one should make any excuses for their situations get up and fix it,

Comment by Martha Anderson on May 8, 2012 at 12:02am

Dude. I am basically happy, at this point in my life anyway. 

I'm sorry to hear that you struggle with mental illness, but don't you think people with similar issues should be able to get treatment? Don't you think what happened to you was bullshit? Do you really wish that on anyone else? 

Wait a second, how did you get a hip replacement at 16 if you were fending for yourself?

Comment by Zachary Melvard on May 7, 2012 at 11:54pm

Zachary - I am very appreciative of the opportunities I have and have had. That's why I want everyone to have them. The fact of the matter is that a person who is disadvantaged from the beginning (disabled, trapped in an economic ghost town, etc.) is extremely unlikely to overcome that, and refusing to acknowledge that fact only victimizes people further. I would think you would be interested in empowering people if you're so appreciative of what you have, not victim-blaming. I guess there are a lot of ways to approach appreciating something.

Bi-polar, Borderline personality disorder, thrown out at a young age to fend for myself, had a hip replacement at 16.

Disadvantaged? Sounds like your making excuses as to why your unhappy fix your life i can i don't use those things as an excuse get over yourself and grow up.

Comment by Martha Anderson on May 7, 2012 at 11:34pm

Joe - How is what I said cynical? Our points of view only differ in that I think security, dignity, and real political representation are important, and you apparently think they're not. I'm sure you'll correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you don't think there's anything emotionally draining to escape from in our situation, in which the vast majority of people will never have any of those things. I think there is. I basically live a happy life too; I'm just self-aware enough to recognize my own escapism. To avoid being cynical, you have to be in denial? Please.

Taking out the middleman isn't the answer either. And how is it "jive" that extreme economic inequality creates a system of incentives that make political success impossible without being the puppet of moneyed interests? Original political apathy (basic political laziness) has a role to play as well, but eroding the free time, education, and hope of average people perpetuates it, and make no mistake, it is part of the corporatocracy's agenda. Controlling the country's resources gives them the power to execute that agenda with the frightening efficacy that can be seen today. Politicians might technically have a "choice" about whether or not to take bribes, but in almost all cases, choosing not to is choosing not be a politician. Though I think most politicians are probably literally high PCL-R score psychopaths, any that aren't are pressured to act that way through this system to "get a foot in the door to have a chance to do some good." 

A slightly more progressive tax system and prioritizing social spending over the war machine and corporate welfare does not give the government more power; it just means they would be doing something different with the power they have had for a long, long time. At this point, you can't just destroy the government without simply handing the power it had to the not-technically-government portion of the corporatocracy. I obviously don't know you very well, but I imagine you're not a huge fan of very centralized power. 

Functionally, money is power, and in practice redistribution of wealth "downward" (to the relatively poorer people) decentralizes power. Unfortunately, both recent and long-past history has shown us that already having money makes it easier to get more money. Because money is power, the logical eventuality of that is that money/power will become so centralized that checks and balances don't exist. We are currently seeing the beginnings of this in the US's political system. Seriously, we need to do something about this. That doesn't make me cynical, and it doesn't mean that I want to give the government more power. The Koch brothers et al. might tell you that in some Cato Institute propaganda, but think about the financial incentives they have to do so. (Side note: it makes me very sad that Penn & Teller have been taken in by those people.)

Zachary - I am very appreciative of the opportunities I have and have had. That's why I want everyone to have them. The fact of the matter is that a person who is disadvantaged from the beginning (disabled, trapped in an economic ghost town, etc.) is extremely unlikely to overcome that, and refusing to acknowledge that fact only victimizes people further. I would think you would be interested in empowering people if you're so appreciative of what you have, not victim-blaming. I guess there are a lot of ways to approach appreciating something.

Comment by Zachary Melvard on May 5, 2012 at 10:22am

The fact that you can achieve something regardless of position in the world and that you can be happy regardless of money is why this country is amazing, your very unappreciative about the opportunities you have.

Comment by Joe Swam on May 5, 2012 at 3:02am

"escapist happiness through relationships, hobbies, and psychoactive substances..."  WOW. Just wow!  That level of cynicism makes me sad. I don't make a lot of coin, but I live a very happy life. Mostly because of relationships that I have with family and friends. Silly me. If only I were smart enough to know what real happiness is. 

The problem with the Occupy folks is they believe the solution to some of the real issues they're upset about is to give the government more power. The government who opened up the public coffers and gave our money to corporations and banks. The government who continues to kill ridiculously large numbers of people in our name. The government who pays for so many student loans, offering colleges no incentive to lower their tuition (the same is true for health care). The government who placed a cap on oil spill liability in 1990, so that a company like BP doesn't have to pay the full amount to clean up the Gulf. The government got us into this mess. And please don't say that companies use high paid lobbyists to sway lawmakers. That's jive. No one put a gun to their head. They (government) shouldn't have enough power to give our money away. And you want to give them more? Good thinking.

Comment by Martha Anderson on May 5, 2012 at 1:49am

You can make small changes at most anything, but changing the unjust aspects of a country's system is impossible if you don't have a whole lot of money or a whole lot of help.

Wait, what are you claiming was the personal attack? Saying that it's hypocritical to advocate 'taking responsibility for yourself' by not depending on others for material support while behaving in ways that are extremely likely to make you require others' support? Or was it saying that believing and repeating corporatist propaganda is helping to make life worse for almost everyone? Those are all things you do, not things you are. I'm sure you're a very cool dude, just misguided.

People tried to do something about BP, and I'm sure some still are. That doesn't change the fact that in the scope of society, the people of the Gulf coast are powerless. Tenacity only goes so far before it becomes futility.

You've clearly never been to Occupy, and you can't pronounce something a failure before it's over. They've already reinserted human quality of life into political discourse, stopped some foreclosures, stopped some school closings, and united a community across their various pet issues by clarifying the ways in which they're all interconnected. Rome wasn't built in a day.

Yes, life in the US may be better than in Darfur, but that doesn't mean the US is "a place of endless possibility." In many ways, other countries have more possibility than the US does.

There are escalating challenges to our ability to politically "bitch" as well: http://www.wnyc.org/articles/wnyc-news/2012/may/04/using-police-war...

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